Ep: 42 Transforming Trauma into Triumph - Overcoming Bullying and Chronic Illness (Featuring Hannah Deal)

What if childhood trauma could become a source of personal strength? On Circumstantially Successful, I talk with Hannah Deal, who shares her powerful story of overcoming bullying, body image struggles, and chronic illnesses like narcolepsy and POTS. Her journey is one of resilience, self-discovery, and the healing power of empathy and community.

Hannah’s story highlights how we can shift from feeling like a victim to seeing challenges as opportunities for growth. Whether she’s coaching a high school triathlon team or assisting the Community Investment Collaborative, her life is a testament to the power of kindness and listening.

We also explore the difficulties of living with chronic illness, the emotional challenges it brings, and how Hannah found balance between self-improvement and accepting help. She shares tools like subconscious reprogramming and the Dynamic Neural Retraining System that helped her heal emotionally and physically.

Tune in to hear Hannah’s inspiring story and gain practical tips on overcoming life’s toughest challenges with perseverance, empathy, and support.

Looking to Connect With Hannah?

Follow Her On Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tri_try_again_/

Chapters

• 0:09 Overcoming Childhood Wounds and Empathy
• 8:45 Empowering Others Through Coaching
• 16:07 The Power of Active Listening
• 20:17 Navigating Life With Chronic Illness
• 25:12 Navigating Chronic Illness and Friendship
• 31:19 Recovery Through Subconscious Reprogramming
• 38:02 Navigating Emotional Healing and Support
• 44:03 Balancing Self-Improvement and Community
• 47:57 Self-Improvement and Overcoming Past Habits
• 1:01:17 Exploring Goals and Life Transformations

Transcript

Brennan Hilleary: 0:09

Welcome to Circumstantially Successful. I'm your host, rennan Hillary, and my mission as a lifestyle entrepreneur is to help others become the creators of their lives. Every week, I'm committed to helping you build your power from the inside out. Thank you for tuning in, for believing in yourself and for refusing to be a victim of your circumstances. Hope you enjoy the show. Let's get started.

Brennan Hilleary: 0:33

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Circumstantially Successful. Today I have a very special guest and I'm excited because it's a break. It's actually a return of a little hiatus I've took with my podcast and this is somebody who I met hiking at humpback rock and her story really inspired me. She's gone through a lot of adversity in her life and she still is trying really hard to make the impact that she wants to make and has a great attitude and I think she's a perfect guest for the theme of this podcast, which is not being a victim of your circumstances and being a creator of your life. So I hope everybody welcomes Hannah Deal. Hannah, how you doing.

Hannah Deal: 1:15

Hey, thanks for having me. Yeah, good Excited to be here, as you know, second time being on a podcast, and so I uh looking forward to having the experience again.

Brennan Hilleary: 1:27

Yeah, for sure, and you're gonna do great, I promise. So, hannah, one of the first questions I have for you is I just want to know about your upbringing and some of the challenges that you faced, um, in your earlier life, just because a lot of times, especially when it comes to the people I have on this podcast people have gone through a lot of trauma or pain or have gone through a lot of circumstances that have forced them to be somebody that they necessarily didn't want to be, but somebody they had to be to survive, and a lot of times that causes like a riff in their sense of self and who they want to be. So I'm curious for you, like what are some things that you you experienced when you were younger that that kind of made you that, maybe that person that didn't feel authentic to you, and kind of explain that as best you can.

Hannah Deal: 2:20

Yeah, um. Well, I think you know, if you look at my upbringing from a surface level, I it was pretty tame. I mean, my parents are great, they're supportive. I love my family. Every family has their stuff that they go through and certainly there are some things here and there.

Hannah Deal: 2:41

But I think for me, one of the I think the biggest challenge that I went through as a kid was bullying in elementary school. Bullying is very common, unfortunately, but for me it was bad enough that I almost started homeschooling. I've come home from school every day crying. I went from having lots of friends to just not really having any friends at school for fourth and fifth grade, continued a little bit into middle school and started getting better after that. But I think that for a couple of years according to my family talking to them later on but I can see this, of course, looking back made me a little bit angry. I don't think I was like an angry child overall, but not necessarily the most pleasant to be around all the time, because I didn't really know how to handle the way that people were treating me, and I think that happened because kids are just mean. But I also think that I was a bit judgmental when I was younger. I mean, I think everyone kind of is in elementary school. You just speak your mind.

Hannah Deal: 3:54

Not many people have a filter and I think that, yeah, for a while I didn't really know how to act, how to make friends, because I was just so insecure, so uncertain of myself and I don't know. I think this started around the same time. But for a lot of my I guess probably most of my life I've also struggled with body image and, starting more in college, my relationship with food, and I think that so much of that goes back to that deep insecurity that I developed in elementary school. That just developed in elementary school. That just, yeah, led to me having a lot to figure out about myself and what I, who I wanted to be, what I wanted to be, and I feel like it took me a bit longer to to figure that out than it does for some people, or at least it felt that way to me at the time, some people, or at least it felt that way to me at the time. But, yeah, that definitely did a lot to to shape my the rest of my life, ultimately, I think, for the better.

Hannah Deal: 5:14

And then I'll just add on that I think being the youngest of four kids who are all pretty high achieving definitely put a lot of pressure on myself as well and, again, my parents were great in this regard. They wouldn't get, you know, they weren't obsessed with all of us getting straight A's, and we're just very supportive in the things that we wanted to do, which was amazing, but I'm very good at putting pressure on myself and my yeah, my older siblings were all doing sports and most of the music as well, and I got into those because I love them and I still do them. But it was very easy to compare to my older siblings and how many friends they had and how successful they were, and so it also took me a while to realize that I'm my own person with my own talents, and that comparison really isn't helpful.

Brennan Hilleary: 6:09

Yeah, no, thank you for that. And one thing that you said that really stood out to me was that childhood I call it wound, that childhood wound of not feeling good enough because you're bullied. It's so crazy how that one wound can manifest into different things throughout your life, and it's. I actually also, similarly, was bullied when I was a kid and it definitely put a damper on my self-esteem, and one I think it's really cool that you're you're aware of, like all those links.

Brennan Hilleary: 6:37

You're aware of how that I don't know how other people's perception of you when you were a kid manifested into, like those body issues when you're older and that sense of self whenever, when you're older and you mentioned something about how you feel like it takes you longer it's taking you longer than a lot of people to form your own identity, and I can definitely relate with that too. For you, what do you think when it comes to see how I want to phrase this, I'm a big believer that we're given very specific challenges to overcome, because those challenges, once we overcome them, are the roadway to our gifts and how we're supposed to serve others and help others. So, based off of the struggles that you have gone through, how do you think that those struggles have helped prepare you to help people now?

Hannah Deal: 7:32

Definitely made me a lot more empathetic, which I think I always have been highly empathetic, highly empathetic. Um, my, this is gonna seem totally random, but at some point years ago my sisters and I were talking about if we were, um, if Divergent were real, the book series, then what, what group would faction, would we be sorted into? And both both of my sisters said Amity for me, which is um, I was a little bit offended at the time because they both said Dauntless for themselves and I was like I'm bold, like I can do cool things. But looking back on it, I that was kind of sweet that they said that and I, when my siblings were sick, I would make signs and put them on their door and like bring them things. And I've just always liked doing stuff for other people and I think that that was something that would continue through my life, no matter what.

Hannah Deal: 8:34

But having the experience of being bullied really made me have another perspective. And okay, what is it like to be bullied? And you know, there are some kids who are really different in school, who might have learning disabilities or developmental disabilities, who I mean they just kids can be extra mean to them. They don't generally have anyone to support them. And so one thing that sticks out in my head is there's this one girl in particular who, yeah, she really didn't have any friends. People were just so unkind to her through.

Hannah Deal: 9:13

It was middle school and a couple of years ago I went to my parents' church and she was there with her parents. They had started going there recently and I went over saying hi to her and I could see I mean, maybe I was imagining this, but I swear I could see in her mom's eyes the fear once she realized that this was someone her daughter went to school with, because I doubt that her daughter had many positive encounters with people. And the girl greeted me with a smile and gave me a hug, and I could tell that her mom was just so happy that she actually had a good connection with someone. I imagine that, yeah, most of the people that she saw wouldn't really bring back good memories, and so I think certainly there are ways that I could have been even kinder or dealt with situations like that. You know, sit up for people even more. But I guess I realized that, oh, you know, that's something I might not have had the courage to do had I not experienced that myself, because it certainly didn't help my situation.

Brennan Hilleary: 10:24

Right.

Hannah Deal: 10:24

Yeah and yeah, and so I feel that I don't know it was kind of affirming when that happened and I think, yeah, each, each experience I've had, I think any adversity just helps you to see things from a different perspective and understand where a group is coming from that you might not have understood before, or, at the very least, you can try to put yourself in that person's shoes, and that's pretty much always a good way to go about life.

Brennan Hilleary: 10:55

Yeah, that's awesome and I think it's really easy to to give you more credit. It's really easy to let those experiences harden your heart. You know, and when I think of, when I think of victim, I think of somebody who thinks the world. World is happening to me, you know, not for me. And when I think of creators, the world is happening for me, not to me. And I think that a lot of us start out with thinking the world is happening to us.

Brennan Hilleary: 11:20

And I'm sure you felt that way when you're getting bullied at the time, and I'm sure the girl that you're talking about also felt that way when she was getting bullied. And the fact that just that that small action of making her feel like she belonged, the fact that that kind of came back around that many years later, is also, it's really cool and affirming. And it sounds like that's a part of what you're meant to do is make other people feel like they belong, you know, especially if you've had that desire of always making people feel good. And, um, I like to think I have the same desire, I think just in a different way. But no, I think that's awesome and for you, I know that you have, like, a lot of things going on right now, and we've talked about this a little bit. Hannah has seven different hats, eight different hats. What are some things you're doing right now, with that newfound sense of self that you have? What are some things that you're doing right now to try to serve others and to try to help them out?

Hannah Deal: 12:20

Yeah, well, I guess I'll give a quick rundown of what I do for the vast majority of people who don't know. I finished working at full time at a nonprofit a few months ago that helps small businesses and entrepreneurs, particularly in underserved communities, which is a job that I loved but left it for a few reasons. And I'm actually now contracting for them as a financial management coach and also working on a loan proposal, which is kind of a separate thing that I'm hoping they'll keep asking me to do. And I am a triathlon coach out of high school, bookkeeper, helping an accountant, and I'm a semi-professional violinist, I guess, and then do some house sitting.

Brennan Hilleary: 13:05

That's right, I forgot about the violin. I still need to hear you play.

Hannah Deal: 13:13

Yeah, well, uh, out on the mall most Fridays and Saturdays. So anyone is listening in Charlottesville and you've seen a tall violinist uh, that's probably me. So, yeah, um. So I think, well, I feel like I incorporate trying to serve others and make others feel seen, um, which is a phrase I used a lot in my last job.

Hannah Deal: 13:40

In everything that I do right now, I think of coaching, which I did some of this morning, and I mean all these kids are so great and the school is really supportive. It's one of the things I love about it is there really isn't bullying, there aren't clicks. Everyone is happy to cheer on another student and I think that's fantastic, but they're they're all still going to have their own insecurities. And you know, this one kid I was working with, he had a lot of questions about his bike and the upcoming race and seemed he kept apologizing for asking more questions. I was like that that is why I'm here. You know, you don't need to feel bad about that. And I could tell that one other kid was feeling a bit self-conscious because they weren't able to make it up the hill, up this really big hill on the bike.

Hannah Deal: 14:37

But Charlottesville is really hilly.

Hannah Deal: 14:40

It is a difficult place to cycle and so, especially for the first ride of the season, there is absolutely no shame in that, and so one of the things that it's possible I overdo it, but I kind of feel like I can't overdo this is tell people you know that they are doing a good job and it doesn't matter if they.

Hannah Deal: 15:04

Obviously we want people to reach their goals and that's great. We've talked about goal setting and that sort of thing but I never want anyone to feel like they aren't as valued because they didn't get up that hill or they might not be as fast, or they don't have as much experience or they don't speak the language as well. Everyone is coming from a different place, and that, to me, is the most important aspect of being a coach, and being a good coach is making sure that people feel included and they feel equal to the other students and that they know that, no matter what, the coach is going to be there to support and encourage them. And so, especially with high schoolers, because it is such a vulnerable time people are figuring themselves out. You have friends who are going off to college, you know hormones are going all wacky, yeah, and so that's.

Hannah Deal: 15:58

That's one way that I, yeah, try to incorporate my values, and that's probably a long enough answer there.

Hannah Deal: 16:07

But to just touch on with uh, working at cic um, where I just left community investment collaborative a lot, I mean. So much of what we do there is helping people who have had difficult lives, who are coming from difficult circumstances and who might have sought help at a traditional bank or some other institution and were turned down and sometimes had a pretty bad experience, and so they're already coming to us with a lot of distrust and it's very easy to set off that mistrust and scare them away and they don't want to come back, and a lot of the people we're trying to help are also embarrassed by, maybe, their financial circumstances or where they found themselves, and so a huge part of how we do our job is listening and making sure that people know we aren't here to judge.

Hannah Deal: 17:11

You know we we are here to help people exactly like them who have been had to work way harder than so many other people, who have gone through way more, and there's no reason that they should feel embarrassed about sharing that or concerned about what we're going to think, because the reality is most of them have gone through more than than we've had to go through, and so I look at it as it's a privilege to be able to work with them and kind of figure out the best solution. And yeah, so much of it really just comes down to listening, making sure that you listen to people and then you can kind of figure out what they need.

Brennan Hilleary: 17:55

Yeah, and that skill alone is a rare skill.

Brennan Hilleary: 17:58

You know, active listening, right, because a lot of people just listen to respond, and I think that's incredible.

Brennan Hilleary: 18:04

And what it sounds like, too, is that job was the perfect way to help you with developing the ability to listen, to coach others.

Brennan Hilleary: 18:11

Just because if, if you're, you know, if your definition of success for a coach and I agree with this too is basically helping make other people feel seen and heard, then that sounds like the perfect match for you and that's and that's awesome, and I think it's so powerful the way you think about it too, because I always ask myself why do we judge, you know, as human beings, like I judge people all the time, like unintentionally, without, without meaning to, and then I catch myself and then I try to make my mind go to a clean slate.

Brennan Hilleary: 18:46

But I think a lot of times when it comes to judging others, like, the specific things that we judge in others are the things that we're most insecure of within ourselves, and I've just noticed that just throughout my life, especially when it comes to, like, being jealous about how another guy looks, how jacked he is right, or jealous about how much money somebody else is making, or it's almost like that envy is directly connected to, like a desire that you know, you want to have, but, like you're, you're maybe not doing the things you need to do to to get there.

Brennan Hilleary: 19:18

Um, no, it's just so cool that you're fueled by I just love the way you put that words it's helping other people feel seen, because if there's one thing that should be a fundamental need and what everybody's entitled to as a human being, it is feeling seen and being seen. But yeah, there's so many people who don't feel that way, and more so like, even though we have 7 billion people on the planet, there's so many people that feel so alone. You know for you, I know that you mentioned that you are dealing with something that you call the invisible illness, and I want you to elaborate on that and talk about it Because, one, I think that's one of the most powerful parts about you and your story and, two, I'm sure there's been times where that's made you feel really alone and misunderstood, so I'd love for you to talk about that.

Hannah Deal: 20:11

Yeah, boy, this is a subject I could talk about for literally hours.

Brennan Hilleary: 20:16

Let's go.

Hannah Deal: 20:17

So I yeah, I guess I'll start with I've been diagnosed with narcolepsy, which is a sleep disorder, and POTS postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome which I stumble over nine out of 10 times. So I guess that's a success that I said that correctly. Pots is a cardiovascular disorder and essentially blood circulation thing. I won't go into all the symptoms of both, but some of the symptoms of POTS are exercise intolerance, fatigue, heat intolerance, just difficulty regulating body temperature in general. And for narcolepsy, the primary symptom is EDS or excessive daytime sleepiness. So it's not really a question of am I sleepy, it's how sleepy am I, how symptomatic am I? I experienced symptoms 24 seven. Sometimes they're better and sometimes they're worse, and that's just the baseline that I operate off of now. But it didn't used to be the case because I was pretty healthy up until 2017 started developing symptoms during that summer I'm pretty sure I was bit by a tick and it triggered a bunch of stuff and pretty quickly I started feeling really awful.

Hannah Deal: 21:41

Um, somehow managed to graduate with okay grades my last year because I got sick before my last year of college and started a business after graduating college, which in some ways was easier than working a regular nine to five because I could create my own schedule, but it was also harder in a lot of ways because you have to put a lot of time into running your own business, and it was. There's labor too of working in the kitchen and working at farmers markets, and so, long story short, eventually, um, I just couldn't keep up with it anymore and I had to stop the business and the next couple years I, yeah, wasn't really working at all. I actually had applied for disability before I stopped running my business and was on disability and it was very hard. Honestly, that time of my life is kind of like a blur, partially because I spent so much time sleeping and that was because of narcolepsy. You know it's easy for doctors to think, oh, she's depressed, which, yes, I was also depressed that came after, which was a symptom.

Brennan Hilleary: 22:47

It wasn't the cause. Yes, exactly.

Hannah Deal: 22:50

I mean, at my worst I was sleeping 16 hours a day and it was a great day if I could go on a half mile walk or do household chores like more than one. And so, yeah, I was living with my parents, just had no idea when or even if I was going to get better, and just spent a long time wondering is this going to be the rest of my life, which was really scary, and it's definitely very, very isolating, especially because this is my my first and my family's first intimate experience with chronic illness, and it's a big learning curve, I mean, I think I think, even if you're for a hypothetical situation, a doctor who specializes in chronic illness but doesn't have one yourself, I think if that doctor were to then get sick, I mean it would be a whole different experience. And so I'm going through my experience of my body feels broken and I can't do anything and I don't know if I have a future, at least not the future that I want.

Hannah Deal: 24:02

And then my family, especially my parents, who I'm with all the time, are struggling with watching this transformation and wondering too if I'm going to get better, and also dealing with the fact that they're living with somebody who's deeply unhappy, which is also hard. And so, yeah, when I first started feeling sick, you know, I did look, look for doctors and started seeing quite a few specialists, but I didn't really know how to share with friends because I didn't really know what I was going through. All I knew was it was scary and unknown sometimes too, where I tried to get some flexibility from professors at college if I wasn't feeling well and had a test or an assignment. But and I had great professors, but they had policies and they didn't really have a reason to give me that flexibility because I didn't have any diagnosed issues, I didn't have a doctor's note, and so this- is so frustrating.

Hannah Deal: 25:01

Yeah, yeah, I really wish that I could have had accommodations that last year, Um, but yeah, I didn't even really know what how to explain my experiences.

Hannah Deal: 25:12

And there was, um one friend who is no longer my friend not for this reason, for other reasons, but I'd say it's probably an indication of why we eventually stopped being friends who got pretty frustrated with me because I was having trouble keeping up with our communication to the same degree and because we went to different colleges. And it wasn't until I officially got my diagnosis that she was like oh, I get it. And then she, you know, to her credit, did make a more concerted effort to try to understand and was very supportive for a few years. But there were definitely some friends who distanced themselves because they didn't understand. I wasn't really able to solidify a lot of my friendships at senior year college and I didn't know how to go about saying hey, I'm sorry we haven't hung out as much, I'm feeling terrible and I don't know why, and I know it doesn't look like I'm experiencing anything, it just felt a lot simpler to try to figure it out on my own.

Hannah Deal: 26:24

Yeah, and especially once I stopped working and I am really I'm very thankful that I've got some pretty amazing friends who have stuck with me through the years, even when it got so hard, but it is just a very singular experience to be not be able to do anything that you used to be able to do and not know if that's ever going to change.

Hannah Deal: 26:52

Um, to go from somebody who's very able-bodied and active and overachieving to just being home all day, every day, and, um, yeah, yeah, and brain fog is a term that I use all the time. I feel like most people are familiar with it, but you know, essentially, when you're just having trouble thinking clearly, and that was so bad for a while, um, but I actually felt like I had a lost intelligence too, and so, yeah, I feel like I built up a lot of confidence my first few years of college and then it just all got stripped away. Um, and I I didn't want to catch up with old friends, because the questions was, the questions were how are you doing? What are you doing?

Brennan Hilleary: 27:45

And I didn't really feel like speaking about how your life's been going. You didn't, you didn't want to be a downer.

Hannah Deal: 27:50

It sounds like exactly like hey, yeah, I'm sick and on disability, and now my parents and I don't know if I'll be able to work again. How about you?

Hannah Deal: 27:56

You know a lot of people don't know how to respond to those sorts of things, and that's part of why it's so isolating and why I have tried to be much more open about chronic illness in my experiences over the last couple years, since I've become more comfortable doing that um, because sometimes I'll share with people and they just they kind of freeze up, um, they either respond with some sort of joke or they like change the subject.

Brennan Hilleary: 28:27

Um, right it, it just makes people uncomfortable and that's and it's it's hard to you know, one of the biggest things when it comes to speaking your truth and first off, I can relate to so many things you just said it's crazy and I'll I'll dissect those. But when it comes to speaking your truth, you know, I think one of the biggest things that I've had to learn and it's actually what inspired me to start this podcast is you have to be okay with being misunderstood. And also, I've come to understand that the extent to which other people can understand you depends on how much they are committed to understanding themselves themselves. And when people don't take that time to really, or aren't really forced to take the time like you were and like I was when it comes to illness to sit down and reflect and deal with some of the stuff that society distracts you from dealing with, it's just really hard for people to get deep, you know. And when people don't reciprocate curiosity whenever you're telling them about it, it's really easy to take it personally too, cause you're just like oh, my story's not good enough for you, or my story is not impactful enough, and there's this guilt and the shame that comes along with it. But what I've learned is it's it has nothing to do with us, it just has. It's just based off of the right people who are meant to hear it. We'll take it to heart and it'll resonate with them and it'll help inspire them, maybe to make a change or give them hope or whatever it needs to do, like that love, in that sense, is going to do what it does, and then the people who aren't meant to hear it, then they'll just forget about it and move on.

Brennan Hilleary: 30:04

You know and and so, and the other thing that you said that I think was really powerful is it's so hard whenever you have this sense of self built off of what I can do and you mentioned overachieving a few times. I've also been an overachiever in my life and when you tie your self-worth unintentionally. But when you tie your self-worth to that, when it's like my worth as a human being is based off of how much I can go, go, go, how much I can show up for others, these specific activities, when you lose all that, your sense of self goes with it and you literally feel like your life force is drained from you and you just and I think they call it depression, because it's almost like your soul is like compressed, it's like everything that you thought. I mean, I hope this is pretty deep, but everything you thought you were meant to live for suddenly leaves your life and you're like what's the point right? And it's not necessarily so.

Brennan Hilleary: 31:08

For some people it can go to the extreme of suicidal ideation and attempts, which it did for me and then some. For other people it can be like just severe sadness and hopelessness and depression. I'm really curious how did you, at what point did you, start to climb out of that hole? Because I know that there was a fall from the time you were experiencing these symptoms to it sounds like it went from you were here to down here. When did you start really gaining, I guess, the wisdom and the maybe some of the like, I guess, um, one of the benefits of those experiences start coming into your life? And when did you start, in lack of better term, pick yourself back up from that?

Hannah Deal: 31:51

Yeah, well, you know it's funny because I at one point never thought that I would be in the position where I could talk about any of this positively. I would see videos or hear about people who were dealing with similar things and were happy and I was like I'm never going to be like that. How do they get like that? And I guess the one thing that I did keep doing all throughout my struggles was trying to find a solution and that sounds like oh, obviously you're going to do that.

Brennan Hilleary: 32:33

But when you're so drained you can barely get up in the morning. That's a hard thing to do, yeah.

Hannah Deal: 32:40

Oh yeah, I mean my full time job that was very part time hours was going to doctor's appointments and doing research, and you know my parents would do that too. My mom was picking up books that would help her understand better. She'd go to appointments with me sometimes, and I also am incredibly privileged to have parents who supported me in that search for a solution. It supported me emotionally, but also financially, and that's also not a thing a lot of people can say, Because a lot of the solutions that I was looking for, the specialists that I saw were not covered by insurance, which leads into a whole other conversation about our healthcare system which I won't, which I can also talk about.

Hannah Deal: 33:27

Yeah, exactly yeah. But ultimately it was a nurse practitioner, um Melanie Dorian, who owns be vital health here in Charlottesville, who was the first person I saw yeah, she's amazing, uh who actually made me feel like I wasn't crazy. She said everything you're experiencing is valid. She had been through something very similar. She was a professional cyclist before she became a nurse so that she could help other people, and she directed me to some programs that I could look into to potentially help more. And it wasn't until probably close to maybe like six to eight months after initially seeing her that I looked into this one program called dynamic neural retraining system that utilizes neuroplasticity to teach people how to rewire their brain, teach them about the limbic system, and it's an online training. They updated it recently, but it was 14 hours when I did. It only costs about $250. So it was also way cheaper than most of the other specialists that I was seeing, especially with a one-off, and you learn how to incorporate these practices into your daily life that involve a lot of visualization and changing triggers, like what you would associate with a symptom and making it. So you don't always have that association and it's really fascinating and you know, if I were to go into it more, get much more scientific. But essentially that program while I'd received some, seen some improvements from some other specialists was very, was big enough to really make a huge impact on my life and this was what made a huge difference. And it did involve an hour to an hour and a half of practices most every day. It's supposed to be every day, but I'm not perfect. There are some people who watch testimonies. They're like I didn't miss a single day. That was not me, but I did most days and I found it to be just so incredibly helpful.

Hannah Deal: 35:32

And the first difference that I noticed was just a couple of weeks into starting this program. I was feeling noticeably happier. Um, which was huge, and I also love that. I started noticing that before an improvement in other symptoms. Uh, I started noticing that before an improvement in other symptoms, because that that's something I hold on to. If I'm going into a flare or not feeling great, it's like okay, well, I was feeling happy before I really started getting better physically and so it is very possible to find joy while still struggling with all of this. So that, yeah, essentially I continued that program and less than a year later I started working again part-time. That then turned into full-time a couple of months after that, but I was able to start being more, more active and yeah, I guess that's kind of what, what started everything. But I also was doing counseling during most of all of this, because I think that's very important and that definitely helped keep me sane so that's amazing.

Brennan Hilleary: 36:37

Yeah, Wow, that's um.

Brennan Hilleary: 36:38

I think it's so interesting how cause one of the things I've looked into a lot because of my history with drug addiction and a lot of, you know, dealing with mental health issues and just like the programming and conditioning I was so susceptible to, is subconscious reprogramming, you know, and or subliminal messaging and things of that nature.

Brennan Hilleary: 36:57

And I think it's just so fascinating how, whenever you combine the two elements of reprogramming your thoughts, but also like your nervous system, which is like in relation to your triggers and how you perceive the world and all that stuff it's just amazing, Like what you can do for yourself. But it's just not mainstream knowledge, it's not taught, it's you know and it's so, it seems so. It's just every solution that's mainstream is just, it's a, it's a bandaid, it's hey, just take this pill and you'll, you'll feel better, but you gotta be on it the rest of your life, Right, which there's nothing wrong with that, but it's like what? What's fully in our control and what can we do to to make sure that we're not only just managing the symptoms but potentially helping cure the disease, Right?

Brennan Hilleary: 37:43

And I think focusing, really taking the reins on, focusing on what you can fully control, which is what you did, because you had that mindset of it's not if I can find a solution, it's how Right, and then using that to allow yourself to experiment until you found something that works. I don't know. That's just such a powerful way of looking at it, because I think that one of the biggest things that makes that keeps people depressed or that keeps people sick or that keeps people from an emotional standpoint mainly, is constantly talking about their symptoms and talking about how bad they're feeling to an extent right, like talking to it, something intentional with it, like talking to a counselor stuff's different but then also not changing their behavior or not doing anything differently that they can control to make sure that their internal state is better. You know, you just have to, like take a hard look at yourself sometimes and be like, obviously, what I'm doing is not working. Does this circumstance suck? Yes, but I have to believe that there's a higher purpose and a higher reason for me to be going through this circumstance and eventually it's going to be a part of the story that I tell people that inspires them to maybe make a change or that I can use to serve them and I think that we're definitely the most qualified to heal the people we used to be, and I think the best way for us to have compassion for others is to go through some hard shit like you're talking about yep and I think it's incredible how you picked yourself back up, just you know from from those circumstances for you

Brennan Hilleary: 39:20

now like what's changed? As far as I know, you still have hard days and I think one of the misconceptions when it comes to people people talking about their you know, quote-unquote hero's journey is that you go from point a to point b. So it's linear, it's like, oh, like I went from this person who was super depressed and down pat and and sad, to now I'm always happy and always fulfilled and always feeling full of life, and I know that's not true. So what are some, I guess, strategies or practices you do on the days where you feel similar to how you used to feel, or on just some days where you're feeling like you can't get up or you're having really bad symptoms?

Hannah Deal: 39:58

Yeah, yeah. I think I'll just emphasize some of what you said with yeah, I'm certainly not now a perfectly emotionally healthy person who never has triggers and doesn't have bad days or unhealthy habits. So let's be very clear about that.

Hannah Deal: 40:15

That it can be easy to look at people who've had those transformations and be like, oh my gosh, they have it all figured out. I don't, I'm still figuring stuff out, but I think one of the primary things that has helped me is really just actually putting myself back into the headspace of where I used to be Obviously temporarily, but but remembering okay, when I used to have a bad day, it looked like this. And now my bad days look very different. I can usually still work and I might even still be able to go exercise. It's just a bad session.

Hannah Deal: 40:54

And that doesn't mean I'm always very careful not to invalidate my feelings with how I'm doing currently, because that wouldn't be fair to myself, but I try to look look at it in an encouraging way of okay, I am able to do so much.

Hannah Deal: 41:13

Now I have seen all of these improvements since I was at my worst and there's no reason to think that that's not going to continue.

Hannah Deal: 41:24

But I won't continue to see improvements, that this isn't temporary. And I also remind myself that I I have been through much worse, that I got to a point, um of yeah, just being that I was at a point where I was pretty hopeless and I was able to get from there to the next, the next point and the next one and yes, not not perfectly linear by any means, um, but I think just remembering how far I've come is huge. And the times when I've surprised myself with how much I've been able to do, um, even though I didn't think I'd be able to do whatever it was Like. As a small example, for the race I did a couple months ago, I was doubting a month beforehand if I was going to be able to do it, because I have not been able to train nearly as consistently this year and I had to keep telling myself well, it's also okay if I do it and I don't finish. I don't like the thought of that, but that is actually an option.

Brennan Hilleary: 42:30

Right, yeah.

Hannah Deal: 42:48

Yeah, that's like success to me and it just really helped, yeah, solidify my mind that, even if progress isn't linear and I've had more setbacks than I would like, that I still come so much farther than I thought I did. Because the fact that I was able to do that race on less than ideal training um means that, yeah, I'm really way stronger than than I had thought, and so I think that that can be super helpful. And just leaning on friends which, honestly, I still remind myself of, um, yeah, that for some reason, is harder than it should be sometimes, but I, yeah, have again some pretty pretty great friends who are very understanding and happy to listen, and so remembering to reach out when I need support is also important.

Brennan Hilleary: 43:48

And I think it's important. I feel, first off, I feel the gratitude from here, from your, for your friends and the people in your life, which I think is super important, because there is this narrative that I used to have that I'm actually still trying to transition out of and I think a lot of people have. When it comes to self-improvement, it's all focused on the self, it's in the name self-improvement and that's it, and we forget that we're social creatures and that are we capable of doing things fully on our own? I mean some things maybe, but I don't know. People want to help us. You know people like people get value out of like. Like for me, like when I coach clients on you know how to take them from burnout to balance when I help them with managing stuff. Like that makes me feel good.

Brennan Hilleary: 44:36

So when we're in our own suffering, it's hard for us to remember that, hey, people actually would rather experience the sadness with you and experience the hopelessness with you than for you to suffer in silence. You know, and that's just something, that it's when we're in that mentality, when we're feeling like crap, when, especially when we have lived a life where we're so used to having to just deal with it on our own. It's really easy to forget that it's. It's going to be a lot. If you're trying to get to the top of the ocean and you're sinking, we can use all of our strength to try to get our head to the top, into the surface, so we can breathe, or we can ask for help and and somebody can help us to the top, to the surface. You know, and I think either way works. But why waste our energy when we don't have to?

Hannah Deal: 45:29

Exactly. Yeah, I have to remember what I frequently tell other people or I'm thinking which is I want? If I say I want to help, I want to help, you know, I I'm, I would much rather be there for you. I mean I have a friend who's going through some pretty tough family stuff right now, there for you. I mean I have a friend who's going through some pretty tough family stuff right now and she was apologizing for this, taking up my time, and I was like, don't apologize, I want to be there for you. I'm so glad that I can be. I genuinely mean that. And so then I think, okay, well, if I'm so insistent on that and I really love and trust my friends, then I have to trust that they are genuine when they're making offers of help.

Brennan Hilleary: 46:15

So yeah, and it's. I think that stems from you know, I think it stems from a lot of things, but I know for me personally that not being able to receive help stems from whenever I was diagnosed by doctors saying that you're depressed, you're anxious, um comments, you know, I think we're different in that sense but, like you know, comments my parents used to make of they wouldn't really help validate my feelings when I was in low States. You know, it was more so, like, um, if I was in low States and there's something wrong with me, but it was if I was in high States, then, um, you know, not to not to have too much fun with it, or, you know, it's almost like always waiting for the ball to drop no matter what and when you start learning who you really are, that's directly tied into learning what you value most.

Brennan Hilleary: 47:06

And if one of your values is friendship, right, you not showing up for that friend is actually a diminishing of the self. So it's like you know and it sounds like for you like friendship and community and these things are values that you hold close to you. So you acting out of those values actually helps fill your cup and I think it's so cool that you can, you have the ability to articulate that and communicate that to that friend, because I think so many of us feel like we're a burden on the people in our lives when we're going through a rough patch. But as long as we're finding that balance of, yes, I'm relying on others, but also I'm very self-sufficient at the same time too, as long as we've built ourselves up to be the person who can manage a lot of things on our own and does have a strong sense of self, I think people are more than willing to help people like that.

Brennan Hilleary: 47:57

You know I I was, definitely I used to be. I called myself the leech. You know I used to be a leech in other people's lives. I used to be the person who drained others, and a lot of that was when I was active in drug addiction and I would constantly take, take, take and would never be consistent and would never commit to people and would never show up. And I think one of the hardest things when you transition from the person you used to be to the person that you want to be, or that, in my perspective, you're meant to be, is letting go of understanding that the amount of work it took to get out of the ditch or get out of the trenches doesn't necessarily have to be the same amount of work it's going to take to stay out.

Brennan Hilleary: 48:40

Yeah, doesn't necessarily have to be the same amount of work it's going to take to stay out. Yeah, you know. So it's like you don't like. For me, I've, you know, experienced a lot of times like there's this fear that I'm going to go back to the person I used to be right, and I think that that fear can be powerful in preventing us from going back to certain behaviors, but I also think it can hold us back from getting to the next step in our journey, which is full self-love, full self-acceptance and um, yeah, that's kind of what made me think of that. So, not to go off on.

Hannah Deal: 49:07

yeah, no, I, I agree with that. I think it's all related. Yeah, yeah, I think it can be. Um, I struggle with when I still, every time I think I shouldn't but I do, when my health kind of goes through ebbs, I think, well, what if I go back to, to where I used to be? But that can be a bit paralyzing If I let myself feed into those thoughts too much, because then I remember all the work that it took to get out of there, when the reality is I'm in a very different place and I am more sure of myself too and I have a very solid support system, and so it's really not that much harder and yeah, but it can be tough to remember that sometimes in the moment, but I think it is really important.

Brennan Hilleary: 49:52

Do you use any random question? Do you use I guess not super random, but do you use any mantras or affirmations to like help you in those moments? I know for me that's kind of helpful because when I'm just trying to think of it's almost like decision fatigue. It's like when I'm feeling that way in the moment, like trying to think of things that make me feel better is almost counterproductive. So I'm just curious if you have like any sayings that you say to yourself or yeah.

Hannah Deal: 50:16

So actually a big part of the program was having something that you did, an affirmation you repeated to yourself every day and that you would do at the end of. You'd say, at the end of these practice, like visualization rounds, that you were doing and mine. I changed, mine, I think, halfway through, just to switch it up, but I'll still recite it most days, at least once, even if it's just in my head. But that is, I am joyously happy, vibrantly healthy and filled with abundant energy every single day. And when I came up with that, none of those things were true, but it was just repeating it to myself over and over and over again. The idea is, repetition is what strengthens the neural pathways and actually helps you rewire, and the goal was that eventually I would feel that way.

Hannah Deal: 51:09

So, that kind of helps put me back in the headspace too, of okay, I can improve and I'm going to improve, it's gonna get better.

Brennan Hilleary: 51:20

Yeah, that's awesome and I think it's so important. I think affirmations paired with action are super, super powerful. You know, and that's and that's one thing I was always on the extreme one or the other of, especially when I first started, like my spiritual journey and I'm sure people who are listening to this I've heard this before, but you know, I hit a point in 2022 where I had this, you know, almost out of body experience, and have this like profound realization of there's a difference between my human self and my soul self. Essentially, I, when I shifted and I realized, like, who I really was, and that I'm not my body, I'm not my thoughts, I'm not my emotions, I'm the observer behind those things.

Brennan Hilleary: 52:06

I went on the other end of the of the spectrum where I didn't want to participate in being a human anymore. You know, I didn't want to play the game, I didn't want to experience all the things that came with that, and so I would always just try to escape my own reality with, like affirmations or meditation or just forms you know, different forms of escapism where before it was drugs to help me show up in real life, and now it was like almost always just being in my head. So I think it's really important to like using affirmations as a means to like shift your emotional state. Then it's like all right, cool, now what do I? What do I do with this? You know, like, how do I stay present? How do I move my body the best way I can, and for me, that's been super, super helpful too.

Hannah Deal: 52:50

So yeah, yeah, no. I definitely appreciate that. I think that's a good point about connecting that with actions and making sure that it's not just you could sit around all day depressed and repeat those things to yourself. But if you're yeah, if you're not actually going doing something that feels good, taking some sort of intentional, concrete step to to feel better, then it's going to be a lot harder to make that happen.

Brennan Hilleary: 53:15

Yeah, well, that, and it doesn't matter how small it is Like it can be like for you, like I I said, like sometimes what success meant to you is being able to brush your teeth in the morning, like that's a win. Like making your bed, that's a win. Doing it, like shaving my face, that's a win. You know, it's just. I think so many people they tie, it's like they have this narrative, and I know I am still struggling with this. Sometimes it's like I am not allowed to feel good unless I do X. So it's like there's very specific things in people's lives that they tie their positive emotions to, and what that does is it takes away the joy of being in the present moment.

Brennan Hilleary: 53:54

And that's actually one reason why I like use a calendar so much and document a lot of the things I do. It's because when I, when I feel like I'm not doing enough, or when I get in that headspace of you know, man, like I'm not accomplishing what I want to accomplish today, I look at that calendar. I'm like, oh, wow, like I've actually done a lot, and it doesn't seem like it at the time, but it's almost like you can use that as a way to build intrinsic motivation, yeah, and like you know what, like I can, like I'm still showing up, I'm still doing things, and sometimes, like that little perspective shift is the difference between I feel like crap about myself or I feel fulfilled with what I've done. And I think it's so important to use some things like that to meet your body where it's at, meet your mind where it's at, meet your soul where it's at, and just understand that consistency. A hundred percent looks different every day, you know.

Hannah Deal: 54:49

Absolutely.

Brennan Hilleary: 54:50

Yeah, and it's like that comparison of like, like for me I I have a hard time Sometimes. I compare what I was able to do with a bunch of stimulants and drugs in my system compared to what I'm doing now. And it's like, brennan, you're not, you're not on drugs, you're not, you know, you're not numbing yourself Like you're, you're showing up fully as yourself and you've been off of it for seven, eight months. Like you got to give yourself some grace, you got to give yourself some time, and I think that that relates a lot to your situation too. It's like you can get lost in thinking about what you could do before you got symptoms and before you got diagnosed. Or you can be like damn, which you said you already done this, but damn, like, compared to when I first got sick to now I'm killing it. Yeah, and that perspective shift is so powerful.

Hannah Deal: 55:34

Yes, Many thoughts based off of all of that, and one leads back to the program, which I guess a lot is naturally of that. And one leads back to the program, which I guess a lot is naturally. But one of the things that I wrote down that is part of the program, you write down every day improvements that you've seen, even if they're really tiny, and some days on my worst days that would mean I took, I napped for 10 less minutes today or I took the time to notice a pretty flower, I don't know small things that felt like I was pulling it from nowhere.

Hannah Deal: 56:08

But it also, over time, helps me to really be grateful for the small things and to notice these small things that would bring me joy. And I also used to have the view which I feel like is outdated and elitist and just kind of weird that exercise or that walking wasn't exercise and that was all I could do for a while. And so, you know, and I did get to the point where I was able to do four or five mile walks and that was a huge deal. And if I had kept that view of, oh, exercise, you know, walking doesn't count because I don't get super sweaty or anything, then that would not have. Well, it's just not true and it wouldn't have helped my mindset at all. So just recognizing going on a mile walk, two mile walks, as huge milestones, even though that looks very different from my previous milestones, really just helped me reframe my, I guess, recovery, as you could call it.

Brennan Hilleary: 57:07

Yeah, and what's crazy is like you take that principle of reframing right and I love, I love framing, you know, like I always used to have, like this is my one frame, I'm living my life with it, whatever right, and I think it's a lot of people live their lives that way and I've learned that nothing's black and white like that. And when you learn how to reframe things like your, you know your past and use your mind as a tool to help propel you forward instead of as a way to trap you, it it's a skill that doesn't just only serve you in recovery, but also just serves you into every step of your life. It's you know, and it's a skill that doesn't just only serve you in recovery, but also just serves you into every step of your life. It's you know, and it's I think it's so powerful to be able to tap into your own personal experiences and use it. It's almost like the way I think of it. It's like a slingshot right, like there's always a point when you let go of the slingshot and that you know it's it's going to hit the target, I'm sure it's like it feels great, it's super satisfying, but there's always a time where you have to pull it back again. And I think in our lives that's what ebb and flow means is like there's always going to be times where we're we see some growth and then we have to go down and embrace the suck for a little bit and then we see growth again and embrace the suck.

Brennan Hilleary: 58:14

So like learning how to navigate those low moments and making sure that we're not making those moments detrimental to our overall progress, because the lower emotional states we have, the easier it is to make bad decisions that maybe take us back into that place of not feeling like, not feeling good, right, like um.

Brennan Hilleary: 58:32

That's, I think, where relapse comes from a lot of times. I think, as long as we just allow ourselves to sit with it, have tools to manage it and just have faith that it's going to pass our net, progress in our life is going to be consistently upwards. And there's this image I'm thinking of right now, where our ego goes in a circle, so it makes us think that we're making progress, but we're actually not, and our soul goes in a spiral. So we sometimes think we're not making progress, but we're actually not and our soul goes in a spiral. So we sometimes think we're not making progress, but we actually are, and I think what it means to meet your body where it's at and honor who you are, while also simultaneously knowing that you can always improve. I think when you marry those two worlds, you end up going like this in a spiral you know yeah.

Brennan Hilleary: 59:23

And you start really showing up the way that I don't know that feels really authentic to you and natural to you, you know.

Hannah Deal: 59:31

Yeah, I think I like that image. Probably going to be thinking about that one.

Brennan Hilleary: 59:38

Yeah, yeah, think away. Yeah, you can steal it. What else we got I think I would love to hear about. What are your plans now? I know that we were talking a little bit before this podcast and you're like I don't know if I have super specific, a super specific vision yet, but that's okay. I would just love to know what do you feel like the direction you're going towards is and what are some things you're excited about in the future.

Hannah Deal: 1:00:08

It's an interesting time in my life to ask this question, because I feel like I have more doors open right now than I ever have before. What with, um, yeah, planning to move and recently having quit my secure job that I really enjoyed and just traveling a lot, a lot of question marks generally, um, and one thing that I've kind of been trying to figure out is what, what kind of job do I want to have in the longer term? What am I most passionate about? And I've always struggled with that question, because I have so many interests and right now I'm really loving doing so many different things, um, and I've looked at some full-time jobs to apply to, and some of them are just so vastly different, um, that I feel like I need to take more time to figure out what that is, and maybe I find something that I love for a few years and then I switch to something else, and you know, I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with that being just kind of the way that the trend for a lot of my life.

Hannah Deal: 1:01:17

But I think I would also love to hone in on some areas that I'd like to explore more. I was kind of hoping to get my personal training certification this past summer, but then time and finance wise just didn't really make sense. So that's something that I'm hoping to do, just supplement, just help make me a better coach and I'd love to explore some other areas of my, I guess, business, financial career. And I think I have a lot of athletic interests and triathlon is the predominant one right now and it just, by nature of the sport, takes up a lot of time and I love it. Um, and I think that there are also other things that I want to try and do and I'm just kind of looking forward to seeing what, what things I find, um, what kind of things I might sign up for, adventures, I might go on with friends and yeah so. So, so, pretty vague. I don't think I actually um made that answer any more specific or home it in more than what I had mentioned before.

Hannah Deal: 1:02:35

But I don't know. I guess I'm just figuring out myself.

Brennan Hilleary: 1:02:38

So well, I think that's a really honest answer, because so I don't know if you've ever heard of human design before, but there's. It's basically human design is supposed to be like the blueprint of like how to live authentically, right, essentially, and one of the themes in human design is, like your manifesting type. So there's people that have a specific manifesting type, which means that they pretty much at all times know exactly what they want, and then there's people who have a non-specific manifesting type, so it's people who just know the feeling that they want and then just kind of let the universe bring it to them. You know, and it sounds, I'm I'm barely I'm very in alignment with you when it comes to all I know is I want to serve the world, I want to experience a lot of different things and I want to feel fulfilled and satisfied.

Brennan Hilleary: 1:03:28

You know, and I think that because of the narrative around society saying you have to have everything figured out from the time you're 18 years old, it's a really there's like an insecurity in a lot of people when it comes to like not knowing exactly what their next step is, and I think that that's honestly where, like, the beauty is in life, and I think that the more people embrace the unknown and do kind of what you're doing and what I'm doing and what I don't know, like leaning into who we are and then just trusting whatever we're being called towards is what's best for us. I think that that's a lot more of a freer way to live life, and I think that that for me, the higher goal is I think our purpose is more so becoming the person that we want to be, instead of the specifics that go along with it. So it sounds like that's pretty much what you're doing, so I think that's great.

Hannah Deal: 1:04:23

Yep, yeah. I'm sure there'll be times in my life where I want a more regular routine, but I'm also trying to leave myself the flexibility to travel more and be able to spend more time with my friends and family who live out of state. So, yeah, I'm content with where I'm currently at. That's awesome, cool. Well, um, yeah, I'm, I'm content with where I'm currently at.

Brennan Hilleary: 1:04:42

It's awesome, Cool. Well, Hannah, thank you so much. It was a pleasure and I want the people to get to know you. I know that you have a few things going on social media wise, so I want to plug your social media for people If they want to get in contact with you, if they want to collaborate. Look at some inspiring stuff. Where can they reach you?

Hannah Deal: 1:05:01

Yeah, so I'm about to be active on there again. I haven't been for a lot of this year. It's generally not a priority for me, but my Instagram is try, try again. T-r-i underscore, t-r-y underscore again, underscore Cause, unfortunately, I needed all those underscores in order to actually get that handle. Uh, so.

Hannah Deal: 1:05:22

I share on there, uh, essentially what it's like to train for a triathlon with chronic illness, but also just share other you know tidbits about chronic illness and life generally. I'm a pretty goofy person and I occasionally share music stuff as well, or just embarrassing anecdotes. So I try to be somewhat entertaining when I am posting, but no promises.

Brennan Hilleary: 1:05:48

So, yeah, no pressure at all, you're good.

Hannah Deal: 1:05:50

Yeah.

Brennan Hilleary: 1:05:52

Well, that sounds good, hannah, I'll. I'll definitely put that on the screen for everybody and, if you're listening, I'll put it in the podcast episode description, but stay tuned for our next episode, Hannah. Thank you so much again for being on and we'll see you guys next time.

Hannah Deal: 1:06:08

Thanks for having me.